Runboard.com
You're welcome.
Community logo






runboard.com       Sign up (learn about it) | Sign in (lost password?)

Page:  1  2 

 
Gaditano Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Head Administrator

Registered: 01-2006
Posts: 896
Karma: 9 (+11/-2)
Reply | Quote
Re: The trouble with Marcheneros & Rafenos


What is the cause of the troubles we have with these two breeds in the US? The infertility, babies dying in the egg or nest and so on. Is it just in the US or is it worldwide?

---

12/18/2009, 6:47 pm Link to this post Send Email to Gaditano   Send PM to Gaditano
 
MarcheneroMike Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Registered user

Registered: 08-2009
Posts: 166
Karma: 4 (+4/-0)
Reply | Quote
Re: The trouble with Marcheneros & Rafenos


The problem is, there have been no recent importations of these two breeds since the late 80's early 90's. There might have been some Rafenos brought in through Miami - but they were not distributed throughout the states. If importations are to be made, you need to bring in enough pairs from some different breeders to give you genetic diversity. This is what Tony Guzman did with the Morrilleros, Moroncelos and Balear. He went to Spain himself, hand picked the birds and got them from different breeders. Add to them the Morrilleros brought in by Daniel Herrera a few years back and we should be safe with those breeds for awhile. The Jiennense, Laudino and Granadino have had many recent imports from Spain and Mexico, these three breeds should be safe for awhile as well. I have noticed that the quality of the Marcheneros I have seen at the shows is not what it was 10 years ago. You cannot keep inbreeding birds without the quality diminishing after awhile. I have seen the results of inbreeding in my Rafenos. After about 10 years, the quality started to deteriorate. It wasn't poor breeding - it was inbreeding. There are two guys bringing in Rafenos from Spain right now. Unfortunately due to cost - only a few pair. Then we will be right back to where we are now, unless more importations are made.
12/19/2009, 7:50 am Link to this post Send Email to MarcheneroMike   Send PM to MarcheneroMike
 
Gaditano Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Head Administrator

Registered: 01-2006
Posts: 896
Karma: 9 (+11/-2)
Reply | Quote
Re: The trouble with Marcheneros & Rafenos


Thanks Mike, that's what I suspected was the cause.

What about bringing them in from Germany? From what I understand it would be a lot cheaper.

---

12/19/2009, 9:10 am Link to this post Send Email to Gaditano   Send PM to Gaditano
 
MarcheneroMike Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Registered user

Registered: 08-2009
Posts: 166
Karma: 4 (+4/-0)
Reply | Quote
Re: The trouble with Marcheneros & Rafenos


The Germans and the Dutch both have very nice Marcheneros. My friend gets an aviculture magazine from Holland and they have nice Spanish pouters in all of the breeds.
The English also have very nice Spanish pouters - Jim Mullens has super Marcheneros. I don't know the price difference of importing from the different European countries. Maybe Graeme would know?
12/19/2009, 2:05 pm Link to this post Send Email to MarcheneroMike   Send PM to MarcheneroMike
 
mad manny Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Registered user

Registered: 06-2009
Posts: 33
Karma: 2 (+2/-0)
Reply | Quote
Re: The trouble with Marcheneros & Rafenos


hey guys
ive never had much trouble
with any of these two breeds
my first year breeding marchies
i banded about 40 out of 5 pairs
and about the same number out of 3 pairs of rafenos
with a couple of extra hens
but you are right about the quality of birds
the same quality that was aroud 10 years ago
was alot better in the marchies compared to the ones ive seen today
seems the marchies are much bigger and tighter feathering
and the rafenos have seem to lost there bigger nose ceres
but i like my rafenos everything about them
and compared to the rafenos ive seen on line
well we will leave it at that emoticon
12/19/2009, 4:22 pm Link to this post Send Email to mad manny   Send PM to mad manny
 
Glassfeather Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Registered user

Registered: 04-2005
Posts: 203
Karma: 7 (+7/-0)
Reply | Quote
Re: The trouble with Marcheneros & Rafenos


Hi Mike,

I don't know what the different costs are from different European countries, I don't know why they should vary, I think it largely depends on the exporter and their charges if they look after the birds for the quarantine period. I know the least expensive route seems to be Holland-Canada-USA, as you say, the quarantine period in Canada can be spent in a regular loft. There was, and to some degree still is, considerable variation among Marcheneros in Europe, it's not fair to say that the Dutch breeders neglected any aspect of their breeding, but simply didn't put strong emphasis on the spherical posture in flight, the loose feathering and wide rump, instead, they developed the quality of pattern and the birds' carriage in the pen, resulting in a slightly different type. Anyway, there is stock in Germany now, and here in the UK, which is Spanish, direct imports or descended from, so you could source good quality Marcheneros, and Rafeños for that matter, outside of Spain.

---
The Dookit
12/20/2009, 11:40 am Link to this post Send Email to Glassfeather   Send PM to Glassfeather
 
MarcheneroMike Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Registered user

Registered: 08-2009
Posts: 166
Karma: 4 (+4/-0)
Reply | Quote
Re: The trouble with Marcheneros & Rafenos


Graeme - Would either you or George know of any reputable contacts for Marcheneros in the U.K.? Also what is the availability of Catalonian Tumblers in the U.K.?
12/20/2009, 2:56 pm Link to this post Send Email to MarcheneroMike   Send PM to MarcheneroMike
 
Glassfeather Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Registered user

Registered: 04-2005
Posts: 203
Karma: 7 (+7/-0)
Reply | Quote
Re: The trouble with Marcheneros & Rafenos


I only know of a couple of people with Cats in the UK, and I think the parent stock was sourced in Germany, cap de frare I think. Can't really say what the availability is, I'll get some contact details and pass them on. Marcheneros are much easier, Richard Greenwood has some excellent ones, I don't know what he has available, but I'll give you his contact details too.

---
The Dookit
12/20/2009, 4:26 pm Link to this post Send Email to Glassfeather   Send PM to Glassfeather
 
vic8 Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Banned user

Registered: 11-2009
Posts: 17
Karma: -2 (+0/-2)
Reply | Quote
Re: The trouble with Marcheneros & Rafenos


i dont think i have seen better features in a marchenero outside of spain than mr greenwoods, i would back it up with some pics if i had them. vic
12/20/2009, 11:25 pm Link to this post Send Email to vic8   Send PM to vic8
 
MarcheneroMike Profile
Live feed
Blog
Friends
Miscellaneous info

Registered user

Registered: 08-2009
Posts: 166
Karma: 4 (+4/-0)
Reply | Quote
Re: The trouble with Marcheneros & Rafenos


Thanks for the info guys, I appreciate it. Where is Mr. Greenwood from?

12/21/2009, 10:20 am Link to this post Send Email to MarcheneroMike   Send PM to MarcheneroMike
 


Add a reply

Page:  1  2 





You are not logged in (login)