Origin of all Continental Pouters https://bpoutersandcroppers.runboard.com/t168 Runboard| Origin of all Continental Pouters en-us Thu, 28 Mar 2024 23:40:38 +0000 Thu, 28 Mar 2024 23:40:38 +0000 https://www.runboard.com/ rssfeeds_managingeditor@runboard.com (Runboard.com RSS feeds managing editor) rssfeeds_webmaster@runboard.com (Runboard.com RSS feeds webmaster) akBBS 60 Re: Origin of all Continental Poutershttps://bpoutersandcroppers.runboard.com/p1312,from=rss#post1312https://bpoutersandcroppers.runboard.com/p1312,from=rss#post1312I think it may have largely been down to selection, although some of the colours and patterns were probably transferred from the German Toy pigeons, along with the large muffs that we see on many of the large continental breeds. The 16th century was a long time ago!nondisclosed_email@example.com (Glassfeather)Sun, 25 Oct 2009 11:35:26 +0000 Re: Origin of all Continental Poutershttps://bpoutersandcroppers.runboard.com/p1311,from=rss#post1311https://bpoutersandcroppers.runboard.com/p1311,from=rss#post1311Well I guess the question is, what breeds would have been added to the spanish pouters to give them the upright tall look that most continental pouters have? nondisclosed_email@example.com (MattCoonDAWG)Sun, 25 Oct 2009 11:25:41 +0000 Re: Origin of all Continental Poutershttps://bpoutersandcroppers.runboard.com/p1302,from=rss#post1302https://bpoutersandcroppers.runboard.com/p1302,from=rss#post1302P.S. - Sorry to have turned this Continental pouter chat into a dove and niece chat! My bad!nondisclosed_email@example.com (MarcheneroMike)Sat, 24 Oct 2009 15:08:25 +0000 Re: Origin of all Continental Poutershttps://bpoutersandcroppers.runboard.com/p1301,from=rss#post1301https://bpoutersandcroppers.runboard.com/p1301,from=rss#post1301I have 6 of them (nieces) all lovely girls. I would be glad to have any one of them care for her when I'm gone.nondisclosed_email@example.com (MarcheneroMike)Sat, 24 Oct 2009 15:06:49 +0000 Re: Origin of all Continental Poutershttps://bpoutersandcroppers.runboard.com/p1300,from=rss#post1300https://bpoutersandcroppers.runboard.com/p1300,from=rss#post1300I hope you have taught the grey to say: "Lucky Girl!" nondisclosed_email@example.com (Glassfeather)Sat, 24 Oct 2009 15:04:04 +0000 Re: Origin of all Continental Poutershttps://bpoutersandcroppers.runboard.com/p1298,from=rss#post1298https://bpoutersandcroppers.runboard.com/p1298,from=rss#post1298My friend,who also lived in Holland said people keep them in a cage on their porches for good luck. His Mother had one that lived to be 21 years old. As for my Gray, she is only 7 and will be around long after I am gone. I tell my nieces which ever one of them ticks me off the most is going to get a parrot for their inheritance!nondisclosed_email@example.com (MarcheneroMike)Sat, 24 Oct 2009 14:44:29 +0000 Re: Origin of all Continental Poutershttps://bpoutersandcroppers.runboard.com/p1297,from=rss#post1297https://bpoutersandcroppers.runboard.com/p1297,from=rss#post1297They can live to a good age, I remember visiting a Pigmy Pouter breeder in Holland a number of years ago, and he had a hand tame ringneck, also white, it was 16 at the time. Maybe not as long as the African Grey though!nondisclosed_email@example.com (Glassfeather)Sat, 24 Oct 2009 14:37:01 +0000 Re: Origin of all Continental Poutershttps://bpoutersandcroppers.runboard.com/p1296,from=rss#post1296https://bpoutersandcroppers.runboard.com/p1296,from=rss#post1296He is a white male, 10 years old now. I hand fed him from a baby and he is very tame. He acts like a pouter, loves to fight with my hand. The only bird my wife allowed in the house---that is until I brought home my African Gray! HA HA HA !nondisclosed_email@example.com (MarcheneroMike)Sat, 24 Oct 2009 14:06:24 +0000 Re: Origin of all Continental Poutershttps://bpoutersandcroppers.runboard.com/p1295,from=rss#post1295https://bpoutersandcroppers.runboard.com/p1295,from=rss#post1295Hi Mike, Lovely little birds the ringneck doves, it must be delightful! nondisclosed_email@example.com (Glassfeather)Sat, 24 Oct 2009 13:42:30 +0000 Re: Origin of all Continental Poutershttps://bpoutersandcroppers.runboard.com/p1294,from=rss#post1294https://bpoutersandcroppers.runboard.com/p1294,from=rss#post1294I agree Graham - We have a pet Ring dove who loves to fly into the bathroom when given liberty every morning. He lands on the shower stall and will sing as long as he's allowed to. They know when their voice is being amplified. And the males realize this is a quality females look for.nondisclosed_email@example.com (MarcheneroMike)Sat, 24 Oct 2009 13:30:24 +0000 Re: Origin of all Continental Poutershttps://bpoutersandcroppers.runboard.com/p1293,from=rss#post1293https://bpoutersandcroppers.runboard.com/p1293,from=rss#post1293Whilst I agree that a larger crop doesn't necessarily equate to a better seductive ability, else surely a Gaditano or a Norwich cropper would merely have to coo and the loft would be covered in enamoured females! Though I do think that there is a correlation in this respect, as you say, Enrique, there are breeds with comparatively small crops, the Palomo de Clase and the Moroncelo come to mind, considered among Spain's better sporting pigeons, and the Moroncelo's crop is described as being little more than the size of "half an orange". This suggests to me that there is an optimum size, or volume of crop, where the resonance is advantageous. Even with what we consider to be a small crop, these birds still possess more, considerably more, crop development than the rock dove. I've observed rock doves, or as close as they can be, on the Scottish coastline where I used to live, and I notice this in feral pigeons in cities too, that quite often they will settle in a place where there is resonance of sound to call the female. A different adaptation perhaps, but serving the same purpose.nondisclosed_email@example.com (Glassfeather)Sat, 24 Oct 2009 13:24:17 +0000 Re: Origin of all Continental Poutershttps://bpoutersandcroppers.runboard.com/p1292,from=rss#post1292https://bpoutersandcroppers.runboard.com/p1292,from=rss#post1292  nondisclosed_email@example.com (mad manny)Sat, 24 Oct 2009 13:16:03 +0000 Re: Origin of all Continental Poutershttps://bpoutersandcroppers.runboard.com/p1291,from=rss#post1291https://bpoutersandcroppers.runboard.com/p1291,from=rss#post1291Alan, crop size and seductive instint are totally independent of one another. Today we see breeds and lines of pigeons with almost no crop at all and a very high drive and seduction and at the same time we can find pigeons with very developed crops and no drive and no seduction. In fact, when rojas Clementes described the pouters in 1800 he mentioned that the ones with the most sence of seduction where the ones he called gorguera which had a medium size beak and smaller crop than the ones that were known as croppers. Clementes said: quote: “... es más ladrón que ninguno y el único que en Valencia llaman ladrón”. (1800). this translates basicaly into: "is more of a thief than all the others and the only pigeon that in Valencia is called a thief" nondisclosed_email@example.com (JEnrique)Sat, 24 Oct 2009 12:45:20 +0000 Re: Origin of all Continental Poutershttps://bpoutersandcroppers.runboard.com/p1290,from=rss#post1290https://bpoutersandcroppers.runboard.com/p1290,from=rss#post1290I think one of the earliest documented references to pouters calls them "Arrulladoras", which translates as "Cooers": XI Century : ABU ZACARIA (died 1107 a.d), 'Kitab~al~Felahah' (Book of Agriculture) Seville, gives us the name of a pigeon: HADIL, translated into Spanish as ARRULLADORA(cooer), by Father J.Banqueri. This may have been due to the extended crop providing a resonant chamber, which would likely be conducive to selection of this trait, as the louder and further reaching the voice, the better their ability to draw a mate. Again, from personal correspondence with señor Buch-Brage: "XVII Century Holland: "In the XVII Century, in Holland, were common.....the Thief Croppers in the HAgue....In 1676, the UPLOPER...was a long cropper, very much like the Norwich. There were 3 types of croppers: 1) In Amsterdam, of large size, big balloon, and coarse head. 2) Groningen, more of the flying type. And 3) in the HAgue, they were small croppers....of the 'Tail sweeper type'.......The Dutch Balloon Cropper originated from the Thief Croppers, which are still to be found today. (Called TiltDuiven. (J.C. Diehl; "History of the Holle", in "American Pigeon Journal", November 1968, page 63)nondisclosed_email@example.com (Glassfeather)Sat, 24 Oct 2009 12:33:04 +0000 Re: Origin of all Continental Poutershttps://bpoutersandcroppers.runboard.com/p1289,from=rss#post1289https://bpoutersandcroppers.runboard.com/p1289,from=rss#post1289That would explain the fact that all Pouters have an enhanced sex drive and highly developed personality. I've never understood why a Pigeon would have such a temperament just because it has genes that cause it to blow it's chest. But having Spanish Pouters as ancestors would explain it. I suppose that means the Holly Cropper has the Morrillero as an ancestor. nondisclosed_email@example.com (Gaditano)Sat, 24 Oct 2009 12:07:32 +0000 Re: Origin of all Continental Poutershttps://bpoutersandcroppers.runboard.com/p1288,from=rss#post1288https://bpoutersandcroppers.runboard.com/p1288,from=rss#post1288Interesting. nondisclosed_email@example.com (JEnrique)Sat, 24 Oct 2009 11:43:00 +0000 Re: Origin of all Continental Poutershttps://bpoutersandcroppers.runboard.com/p1287,from=rss#post1287https://bpoutersandcroppers.runboard.com/p1287,from=rss#post1287Hi Alan, According to Ralph Buch-Brage's files, it is true, and I quote from our personal correspondence: "How did the Pouters or Croppers come to Europe? It is obvious that the wanderings of domestic animals are closely related to the migrations of men. From Asia to North Africa, then to Spain, in the case of Pouters, and later to the Low Countries with the Spanish Tercios of Charles V, the Emperor, early in the XVI Century, and to Central Europe, ruled by the Spanish born King Fernando de Austria and his sister Maria, wife of Louis II of Hungary (killed in 1528 at the battle of Mohacz against Soliman the Magnificent). Maria, who loved animals, brought pigeons from Spain to Bohemia, as well as many Spanish nobles who had served well her brother Carlos, the Emperor. The result was the installation of the BRUNNER Pouter in the area, known in those days as SPANELOVE, meaning Spaniard. (Dr. Vladislav Sir; "Holubarstvi", Prague, 1886, p.27, and Bruno Durigen, "Die Geflugelzucht..."Berlin, 1886, p. 611: 'The Brunner was called Spanier...inBohemia.")nondisclosed_email@example.com (Glassfeather)Sat, 24 Oct 2009 10:49:38 +0000 Origin of all Continental Poutershttps://bpoutersandcroppers.runboard.com/p1286,from=rss#post1286https://bpoutersandcroppers.runboard.com/p1286,from=rss#post1286I was reading in an old Pouter issue of the American Pigeon Journal and it stated that all Continental pouter breeds originated from Spanish Pouters, way back when. "Continental" meaning Norwich, Brunners, English, Poms, Germans etc. True or false? nondisclosed_email@example.com (Gaditano)Sat, 24 Oct 2009 09:20:44 +0000