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MarcheneroMike Profile
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Re: Jiennense vs. Gorguero


If you want to understand the history of the Spanish breeds you must understand the circumstances of the Spanish Civil War. It had a major impact on pigeon breeders and the breeders of other animals as well. The Spanish people, like your people Darren were oppressed. I don't like any one person putting down other races of people as illiterate,lower class, etc. The Spaniards were and are to this day great breeders of not only pigeons but other animals as well.
I am done E-nuff said
10/22/2009, 3:18 pm Link to this post Send Email to MarcheneroMike   Send PM to MarcheneroMike
 
MattCoonDAWG Profile
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Re: Jiennense vs. Gorguero


 I am very intrigued by your post Darren. It is amazing how invading civilizations try to wipe out original peoples. The king of Spain also tried to wipe out the pigeon breeds of the Catalana peoples as well as banning their languages.
   Matt

quote:

darrenyang wrote:

I wonder if one of the kings/rulers a few hundred years ago had something to do with that. I was reading some where about a king/ruler who "made" everyone raise a certain breed of pigeons because he favored them over the others. I don't want to stir up things with people......
I can relate to something like that, b/c in a lot of countries for example I will use my own people's history......
My people were not allowed to be in existance anymore after a certain emperor took over. We faced genocide, persecution, etc. Our women were "made" into Chinese hence carrying our characteristics. After a few generations of the "standard" we were suppose to become. They stopped. Now, our women who kept the language alive by speaking in secret meetings, etc were never allowed to speak, write, our language No documentation after that. Soon after a few decades, the writings were lost. The language continued. No one has records of this, because there were none to keep. So it becomes hearsay, legend some call it. Now, that we look like the Chinese and took the last names of the Chinese people, we still spoke our own language. If my memory serves me correctly, in the 40's and 50's they built a huge army and drove us out of the country with a million man army. We went south into SouthEast Asia into the Mountains.

THen we ended up here after helping NATO and the free countries in the Vietnam War.

No one will admit to this and it gets swept under the rug, because so many years have passed. No documentation was ever found etc. There shouldn't be any if no one wants to remember.

I can understand from both sides of the Jiennese and Gorguero.

I was just saying the "What if" People had to classify them as a different breed jsut to keep them because of the ruler at the time wouldn't allow them to keep them.?

Now to go back in history, and find facts, we cannot do because there mention hardly any thing.

To go back in time and find out for ourselves.....now that will be really awesome!

And by no means, I am saying that the Chinese were bad people back then and I do not wish to imply that they are, but that is what the elders tell me where we came from .

I feel like a pigeon with no history behind him. We cannot trace our lineage.

We look like Asians now, but what did we look like 200 years ago?

My education here in the U.S. tells me to believe nothing unless it is documented in the history books. But "my" history tells me there's more to tell because not everyone was allowed to document history.

Go figure.
Darren emoticon



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darrenyang Profile
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Re: Jiennense vs. Gorguero


Yeah, I am sure at one point or another, countries had/has done their dirty work. We should all just be happy that we have what we have today. I am going forth now, knowing a whole lot more than I ever did about the these two breeds. Good stuff. This is discussion was a very informative one. Thanks for sharing everyone.

Darren

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Darren
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JEnrique Profile
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Re: Jiennense vs. Gorguero


I think is important to remember that the Gorguero if it ever existed as a breed, was during the early 1800 which is when we first find any mention of the name being used in reference to a pigeon. At the same time, the only other pouter pigeons known in Spain that were mentioned by Clementes (the same ornithologist that first mentions the Gorguero) were not even known by names or breeds, the names we hear today such as Colguero, did not even exist at the times, the pigeons mention by Clementes were all names describing an atribute of the pigeon, they were known as croppers, flats, thief, pigeon of caste, gorguera, etc, basically all this names refer to a quality that these pigeons possesed including the word gorguera, these were not breeds people, these were different types of pigeons. If there had been breeds, an ornithologist of Rojas Clementes caliber would have known it and known their names, he would have mentioned them by their names and not simply say that there were some pigeons with an inflated crop and some with a hanging crop and some with a short beak, etc.
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mad manny Profile
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Re: Jiennense vs. Gorguero



just got some really nice jiennense
from mike rex
but one hen bird on the roof box got a feral
cоck bird
only 1 day in 1 capture emoticon emoticon
thanks
mike
10/28/2009, 9:54 am Link to this post Send Email to mad manny   Send PM to mad manny
 
MarcheneroMike Profile
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Re: Jiennense vs. Gorguero


I'm glad you like them. My Jiennense have alot of Spanish Machismo. They came to me from Spain via Mexico! Take care of that little plata male and watch him develope.
10/28/2009, 4:16 pm Link to this post Send Email to MarcheneroMike   Send PM to MarcheneroMike
 
Gaditano Profile
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Re: Jiennense vs. Gorguero


Mike, I also like your Jiennense! Thanks again!

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MarcheneroMike Profile
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Re: Jiennense vs. Gorguero


Alan -
I'm glad you like them. If you need a hen let me know, I am getting rid of some of my breeders (3-4 years old). Still producing nice babies or I wouldn't have kept them this long. They are blue bar hens.
10/30/2009, 5:26 am Link to this post Send Email to MarcheneroMike   Send PM to MarcheneroMike
 
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Re: Jiennense vs. Gorguero


hello new to the forum,
living in belgium long time interested in spanish pouters, half spanish as well , it helps...
 concerning breed I would just like to enphasize
 that fixed breeds in europe are comparatively new phenomena, actually a british concept .
who were the first to "close breeds" to work on close lines, and most of all create the shows and the standarts.
back to the pouters , many villages in spain had pouters, that was a good way to "rob goronas, zuritas , bravias, just name them that is feral pigeons for the food.
people circulation was difficult , spanish roads had until recently bad reputation.
 so developpement came from own stock with a very rare input from outside, and base on efficiency more than anything else, it works all right it doesn't ...off .
 the sport came later with some sparetime left that allow to play ( first in valencia )
and then evrywhere else with valencia, pouters transmitting their genes every where with more or less intensity , but that was a very short time ago , less than 50 or 60 years .
 there are still around some not r"ecognise" breed , I saw personally one of those, in avila, they were bred by gypsies, and they were suppose to bring pigeons from 1km away
 in a very efficient way , so spaniards really went for result , shows and standards came very , very recently .
 juan

 
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Glassfeather Profile
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Re: Jiennense vs. Gorguero


Hello Juan,

I enjoyed your post, welcome to the forum. emoticon

Graeme

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